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Do Vietnamese feel culturally closer to China, Korea and Japan than to their ASEAN neighbours?

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I used to not like China until recent I started fighting with Southeast Asians on Facebook and VietnamAnswer. I realized I do not like them. Especially the Thais and Indonesians.

Then I realized I love China. I feel Chinese culture to be the closest to ours. The Chinese are happy to hear Vietnam is developing but the other Southeast Asians are not. They seem to have high hope for Vietnam while the other SEAs are very jealous of our success.

Here I give some examples:

Indonesian guy: Vietnam will be poor forever and Indonesia will be a developed country in 20 years.

Thai guy: Vietnam will never catch up to Thailand

Chinese guy: Vietnam will follow in China’s footstep to become an Asian tiger

Malaysian Chinese guy: Chinese will invest in Vietnam to make Vietnam rich. But Vietnam must work with China (ok whatever, we will work with you, just don’t take our sea ok)

Even Koreans and Japanese are very supportive of Vietnam comparing to the SEAs.

China is a model for Vietnam. I do not see anything good about Southeast Asia. The laidback culture has influenced Vietnam very badly the more Vietnam moves away from Chinese culture.

In recent years many Vietnamese have recognized this and the opinion of China has changed.

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In the 20th century, when China collapsed into the sick men of Asia, and Korea was a backward country. And the other Sinosphere country, Japan wrote a theory on ditching the East Asian culture (Escaping East Asia) as a way to progress, well East Asian culture was not exactly in vogue. It was during this time that Vietnam drifted towards the West the strongest, due to the lost of confidence in East Asian culture. People very happily adopted the Latin alphabet, abandoned Tang poetry for French influenced freestyle poetry, wore Western clothes, and tried to lean towards Western ideals especially in arts, music and fashion. Some ignorant professors even dared to claim East Asian culture was the reason for poor development.

Fast forward a few more years, the Asian tigers (Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea) were rising in an unprecedented way. Still, people were not 100% convinced even though Hong Kong cinema swept through Asia and the very values that were considered backward and outdated were glamorized through Cantopop and TVB series.

But as Vietnam recovered from war and began a period of rising economic power and prosperity, people began to question identity. It was also during this time that Korea successfully became a first world nation and Kpop slowly took over the reign of Cantopop. Korean culture became cool and Taiwanese TV series started to make waves. Then people began watching Korean historical dramas and wondered how they could be so similar to China yet kept their unique identity.

Then Vietnamese realised that we are not the only culture that had influences from China. Through contact with Korea and Japan, we also began to have stronger confidence and assertive identity. People began to see that Vietnamese similarity to China was not something to be ashamed of, because it was not imposed, it was not copied, it was because we belonged to the same cultural circle.

Until now, Vietnam is still learning to embrace and promote its native culture. Though it’s a Sinosphere culture, it has its own unique flavour and special attributes that differentiate it from the others. But moreover, Vietnam is now more and more confident in its position within the Sinosphere cultural circle. Because it is no longer poor and lacking, but a proud nation on the rise.

With the rise of China, Vietnam is even more confident with its identity as a Sinosphere nation, because the East Asian culture is no longer coward and weak, no longer in the shadow and bowing to others, it is in full strength and will continue in full strength towards a more prosperous future for all its member states.

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Thousands of people all over the world arrived at Vietnam’s Ha Nam province for United Nations Vesak 2019. The Tam Chuc temple is the largest in all Southeast Asia and is located in a spectacularly beautiful place, surrounded by water and mountains.

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Disclaimer: Long answer and a lot of Asian characters ahead!

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A map of Vietnam

Original Question: Do Vietnamese feel culturally closer to China, Korea, and Japan than to their ASEAN neighbors?

Yes, without a doubt. Now, you may be curious. Why is a Southeast Asian country be close culturally to an East Asian country? Doesn’t Vietnam border two Southeast Asian countries? Quick history lesson !! You can skip this part if you’d like, I know history may not be everyone’s cup of tea.

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The original Vietnamese lived in the Red River Delta (shown on the map) and they were a Baiyue tribe who spoke a Tai Ka-dai language. The Green Kingdom is merged with the Yellow Kingdom by a Sichuan-born Chinese general named Thục Phán 蜀泮 (aka An Dương Vương 安阳王 ) into a Kingdom called Âu Lạc .

Âu Lạc was then conquered by another Chinese general named Triệu Đà 赵佗 . He then renamed the country Nam Việt , and this is generally considered the first Vietnamese kingdom. At its greatest reach, Nam Việt consists of territories from modern-day Chinese provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan , and Northern Vietnam .

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Nam Việt was then conquered by the Han Dynasty , which began the thousand years of Northern Domination ( Bắc Thuộc 北属 “Belonging to the North”), and renamed to Giao Chỉ 交趾 . Vietnam gained independence from China, and Chinese domination lasted from 111 BC until 939 AD .

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Chinese became the language of education and prestige, and many Chinese techniques of rice cultivation, animal husbandry, … were introduced. The culture of the elites and educated remained strongly Chinese even after Vietnam got its independence (this ended when French invaded and the French culture was [forcibly] favored). {I wrote another answer on the Vietnamese language and the myths surrounding it. “ What are some myths/misconceptions about your native language? ”}

Now is the controversial part of my answer . The three main ethnic groups that make up the early Vietnamese history is the Baiyue people of Red River Delta (the original Viets), Vietnam-born Han Chinese called Kinh , and the Muong people which are native Montegnards living in the highlands of the natural border between Vietnam and Laos.

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Vietnam-born Han Chinese immigrants usually lived in cities, citadels and well-established trade posts. They are called Kinh people 京族 because Kinh 京 is shortened from Kinh Đô 京都 which means “ Capital ”. Guess what is the main ethnicity of Vietnam ? Kinh . What’s the name for Vietnamese living in China ? You guessed it, Jing or Kinh . People of non-Kinh origin did not live in Kinh-dominated cities so they were considered as Trai 塞 “Outliers” or “Border people” . Basically what I’m saying is that Kinh people (80%+ of all Vietnamese citizens) are Vietnamized Han Chinese. { Fun fact : The most “anti-Chinese” dynasty in our pre-modern history, the Hồ dynasty 胡朝 which banned classical Chinese in favor of the native script Chữ Nôm , originated from Zhejiang, China }

Back to the original question. Why is Vietnam culturally (and genetically) similar to China? Mass immigration, integration, and Sinicization . The sinicized people of Northern Vietnam gradually expanded southward into the land of former Khmer and Champa empires, which is the reason why Vietnam is so damn diverse. We have 54 different ethnicities! That’s not on the crazy African level of diversity but that’s still an astonishing amount. That’s the reason why some Vietnamese look Chinese, while some look Cambodian and some look Thai. You may be of different ethnicity, but as long as you are culturally Vietnamese, you are considered Vietnamese (but not Kinh).

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A Vietnamese girl on Instagram. I censored her name for privacy reason.

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As you can see in this hilarious picture, Vietnamese can have a wide variety of look. Despite being not related at all, due to historical and political reasons, many families converted their last name to match the Emperor’s last name, which was Nguyễn 阮.

So far we have established why Vietnam and China shared an ANCIENT history and culture, how and what did change after the French invasion and colonization of Vietnam? How about MODERN Vietnamese culture?

The influences French colonization has had on Vietnam is fairly minor compared to Chinese influences . Culinarily, this is the most impacted by French cooking. Coffee, exotic new world plants and herbs, modifying French dishes using local ingredients, Prior to the French, Vietnam shared the same tea-drinking culture as China. Nowadays, Vietnam is the second-largest coffee exporter in the world after Brazil.

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Some French words entered Vietnamese, mostly technologies or things unbeknownst to the locals like Sơ mi (Chemise/Western shirt) , Ét xăng (Essence/Gasoline) , Ăng-ten (Antenne/Antenna) , Bê tông (Béton/Concrete) , Bơ (Beurre/Butter) , Búp bê (Poupée/Doll), … honestly speaking, as a Vietnamese, the only French word I would use daily is Ét xăng or xăng for short, the rest is not used frequently. I had to google because I can’t just think of a french word from the top of my head. {I wrote an answer about the misconceptions about the Vietnamese languages and the history of it, which includes some more information about French influences on the Vietnamese language What are some myths/misconceptions about your native language? }

Maybe you should consider dropping us from the Organization Internationale La Francophonie because almost no Vietnamese can speak French nor do we learn French in school. Most Vietnamese people don’t care about French culture because it’s entirely overshadowed by American, Japanese, Korean and Chinese culture in term of popularity.

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A Vietnamese youth maybe drawing some Anime pictures, while eating American fast food and listening to K-pop. Point is, Chinese culture is no longer the only influencer on Vietnamese culture.

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However, despite not being as popular or prominent as before, many Chinese cultural aspects are so ingrained that we often don’t think about it. Many people still tune in to watch Chinese historical dramas like Diên Hi Công Lược 延禧攻略 “Story of the Yanxi Palace” and make memes out of them.

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Many people who know Chinese religiously translate Chinese songs into Vietnamese and sometimes they even write Vietnamese lyrics for Chinese songs.

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The Chinese song Độ Ta Không Độ Nàng 渡我不渡她 made known by Tiktok/Douyin is so popular that Buddhist temples across Vietnam experienced a sudden increase in interest and visit. This

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While Vietnam is part of South East Asia, it has very strong cultural ties to North East Asia as it was under the influence of China for around 1000 years (to be contrasted with less than a century of French occupation). The administrative and educational systems were directly derived from the Chinese system. The Vietnamese language was first written using simultaneously Chinese characters and a system derived from Chinese characters, and all the technical vocabulary in Vietnamese comes di...

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It is undeniable that China had a large influence on Vietnam. For example, the most important literary work in Vietnam is a story about a Chinese girl who lived in Ming dynasty China.

However, to say that Vietnam is closer to China, Korea and Japan and absolutely nothing in common with the rest of Southeast Asia is a stretch.

I would argue that Vietnam shares many things with Thailand, the most similar Southeast Asian country to Vietnam. And arguably the second most similar country to Vietnam in the world.

For example, the love for fish sauce, dried squid, green mangoes, durian and orange juice

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Green mango in chilly salt, a Thai and Vietnamese obsession

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How can you explain to Chinese, Korean, Japanese our love for dried squid?

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And what about our magic potion, fish sauce?

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No Chinese person understands our love for jackfruit

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Or green papaya

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They don’t get excited for durian smoothie like us

For regular Vietnamese like me, we feel a lot of familiarity and similarities with Thailand. Thailand feels like home to me, with many recognizable features.

Modern day Thailand is also a lot more similar to Vietnam than before. With a history of Chinese migration, bringing dishes familiar to Vietnamese to Thailand. Such as Thai guay tiew (boat noodle). That is the same as Vietnamese hủ tiếu

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Thai popia which is the same as Vietnamese bò bía

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Dessert wise, we share a lot of common recipes. Especially the use of agar, jelly and pandan

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I would say Vietnamese people have much more in common with Thai people than people think. And I feel most Vietnamese do feel this sense of affinity for Thailand. It helps that there are no serious conflicts between the 2 countries.

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This important question and divide among Vietnamese is being played out now in the Military and within the Party elite as well as on the street and in the despora. So this is a real time issue of great import with huge political and economic consequences for topical issues like; 9 Dash in the South China Sea, ASEAN and the people of Vietnam.

It should be noted that there are unique things about the Vietnamese community that globally would be close to 100,000 million strong. Vietnam despite decades of reeducation camps and Communism is not a closed society. The Vietnamese community is incredibly well networked into the globe with a huge and active dispora which keeps strong ties with culture and family and this feeds a broader perspective on issue with the community as the cultural ability to take on ideas and not be self referencing compliments this some cultures in Asia like Japan and the hegemonist among the Han are much more inward looking.

I asked my neighbour who is a leading Vietnamese Physics Lecture and Vietnamese migrant, a man who is very very thoughtful indeed and a keen Vietnamese Culturalist.

His answer "yes and no" . Historically Vietnam like Korea & Japan has lived in both the shadow and orbit of Chinese culture, taking much, being given much and innovating, but always struggling to be Vietnamese against the Empires of Thais, Khmers & Chinese Empires and the 100 year yolk of France.

To maintain your cultural identity against a politically, economically and militarily dominant culture is a struggle for many smaller societies like Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Manchuria, Tibet that border China and you see this same central dominance in USA with Canada/ Hawaii/ Portarico, Inuits and the First People or Native Americans, in Europe you see it with the English and their cultural size and reach impacting on Eire, Scotland and Wales so it is not an issue unique to Vietnam, healthy cultures manage this.

The past may draw heavily on China in the fine arts, academia, civil service and music but today those who feel closer to China in Vietnam are often of Chinese decent or those that identify strongly with the "Communist era Rule" as the two nations are in lock step on many issues about domestic affairs, China was a great help at times in te struggles of Vietnam to maintain its independence.

Many in the modern era and without the training in history, arts, music etc feel much closer to the rest of SE Asia and ASEAN and see that as their future. They see a defined and achievable path to prosperity for them and importantly their children after many years of economic struggle in the planned economy. There is lots of hard evidence that the choices available in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore etc offer them an alternative to the China path which has a poor likelihood of property security the rule of law with some separation form the party and a press with many Western Style Freedoms not available if they follow the development of their society on the China path.

Many can proudly look back to China and be thankful for the great cultural injections of vitality she has given Vietnam over the millennia but forward to prosperous and dynamic future as just one of many cultures and voices in ASEAN. It would seem to a long bow to draw out the feelings of similarities for Vietnamese, Koreans and Japanese as although Japan and Korea are now big investors in the emerging Vietnamese economy the cultural ties or parallel views of themselves linked to China dont seem to be there. In the same way as Mexico, Argentina and Chile are linked with Europe via Spain but Brasil is different but similar and maybe thats like Vietnam?

*Footnote I always find it interesting to here from Vietnamese about Vietnam thanks for writing in and making us think.

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