halong bay tour
0 votes
in Culture, Living by

Are the Vietnamese proud of their Sinospheric past? I get the feeling that only the Vietnamese of Chinese descent seem so.

16 Answers

0 votes
by

Just for illustration, imagine the whole Vietnamese culture is a bowl of “Phở bò" (or simply “Beef noodle”). Some thing that looks similar to this picture:

image

Yeah so this is the Vietnamese culture, let’s break it down:

The main ingredients is Phở (noodle or kway teow) and thịt bò (Beef). These are equivalent to the Chinese elements of the Vietnamese culture. With 1,000 years of colonization, China greatly influenced the Vietnamese way of life.

Next, the herbs, spices and sauces (sometimes we add a half-boiled egg as well… yum) could be considered as other external elements in Vietnamese culture like Khmer (food, dance and art), French (most obviously architecture, food like baguette and pâté and latin writing system [1] ) and the US ( mainly Saigon’s style and way of living)

Now last but not least the broth (soup) is the Vietnamese element. Which is what truly make a “Phở bò" distinctive from other “Beef noodle” like Thai Beef noodle or Taiwanese beef noodle. (Of course I’ve simplified it because the way of cooking is unique too)

So after imagining this, it’s quite obvious, in Vietnam, there are 2 extremities of looking at this:

The first group is very anti-China, they are rejecting anything even remotely related to Chinese and Sinospheric past, consider it a shame . Some even wanted to replace Tet (Lunar New year) with Western New year, just like the Japanese. I think this is non-sense. In our illustration it’s like rejecting that “Phở bò" is beef noodle . So what is it then ? To these fellow countrymen, I would like to remind them how costly and unnecessary changing New year would be just because of irrational fear.

The second group, which might be the group the OP belongs to, is reverse. They are asking why we aren’t proud of our Chinese-related culture . Now, it’s like asking why are we not proud that “Phở bò" is a beef noodle . Again, this doesn’t make much sense to me. We are (or at least should be) proud of the whole cuisine (culture) not just the main ingredient !? The Vietnamese beef noodle (meaning culture) is different than the Taiwanese/Japanese/Korean/Thai beef noodle and we are proud of that. (To put into perspective, except for Thailand, all those countries/territories had Sinospheric past). Why should we be proud only of “beef noodle” when it no longer defines us ?

Another thing with the question is that it separates Chinese-descendant Vietnamese from pure Vietnamese. And use this to speculate that only Chinese Vietnamese are proud of Sinospheric past. This is misleading since it seems like the OP considers Chinese Vietnameses are more Chinese than Vietnamese. He/she think they should be proud of Chinese elements MORE than the rest of the culture , which I think is as wrong as the group that rejected it totally.

P/S: Thanks a lot VietnamAnswer, I am now so hungy… [1]: French did not invent “Chu Quoc Ngu” but Alexandre de Rhodes , a French priest/linguist help to popularize it by publishing his Vietnamese-Portuguese-Latin dictionary.

0 votes
by

Well, I disagree with the other answers. I am incredibly proud that Vietnam took so much Chinese influence. Of course, many people argue that it is a sign of defeat, but it isn’t; but rather a sign of a cultural diffusion between the two nations. It reveals that Vietnam was able to take the influence from China, and build it’s very own culture from it. The Chinese influence that affected our culture has also made us unique from every other SEA country, and that is truly something to be proud of. It is such a shame that we are actively destroying our long-lasted tradition and culture, but I guess the anti-Chinese sentiment isn’t helping…

0 votes
by

Vietnam’s Sinospheric past is not something to be not proud of, yet also not something to be proud of.

Society evolves, so what if Vietnam today is more Westernized? Even China itself is not Sinopheric anymore.

What do Chinese people wear today? Western clothing. What’s their hairstyle? Western. What’s their economic system, their technologies? Western. Their military is modeled after the US military. Even their ancient Confucianist beliefs were pretty much destroyed during their Cultural Revolution. They abandoned them themselves for Communism, a Western philosophy.

Visit any big Chinese city today, be it Shanghai or Beijing, and it’s very evident that those cities are more Western than they are Chinese (in a traditional sense).

0 votes
by

Based on my real life experience I think the answers are both YES and NO.

Proof for YES: Vietnamese people as a whole (no matter pro- or anti-Chinese fraction ) look down upon people around us who do not practice Sinospheric cultures (such as Thai, Lao, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippine and aboriginal Vietnamese), label them barbarians. This is so common that people are not even aware of the fact that calling others barbarians is so Sinopheric.

At the elite level (also both pro and anti-Chinese), the learned class emphasizes a lot about national pride and the importance of education and cultivation of manner and intellect. They speak fervently about how to reform Vietnam politically, economically and culturally. Pro-Chinese may suggest go back to Confucianism as a solution (imitating Japan, Korea) while anti-Chinese state that severing all ties with Sinospheric culture is a prerequisite. Ironically the kinds of above mentalities that permeate these elites are so deeply rooted in Sinospheric cultures.

Proof of NO: Only Vietnamese who have the privilege of going abroad are aware of the thing call Sinosphere. This may bring them a shock, similar to the shock our early 20th forefathers got when they learnt the modern concepts of nations and peoples: So if our culture is just an offshoot of Chinese culture what is there to be proud of, especially with the anti-Chinese rhetoric so pervasive both domestically as well as among overseas Vietnamese. So people in Vietnam feel proud of their culture but are less aware of their culture roots while some overseas Vietnamese may adopt the stand of severing ties with Sinospheric culture if they choose to do so.

What people may not realize is that anti-Chinese attitude is not always the norm in Vietnam history. During the most anti-China (not Chinese culture) historical period, the Le and Nguyen dynasties adopted Chinese bureaucratic system and intensified Sinification of Vietnam society. Even when the French injected new concepts of nations and peoples into the Vietnamese elites in early 20th century, Sinophobia was still not the norm. During Vietnam war, the common Northern people were very well aware of the material support that Chinese government gave the North Vietnam government and many people still talk about that with gratefulness. In the beginning of relationship normalization, Vietnam TV was (an today still) flooded with Chinese movies such as Journal to the West, Dream of the Red Chamber…etc. Vietnamese people traveling to China marveled at the speed of modernization in China and were very eager to replicate. These things happened at the same time when anti-China sentiment was still pervasive in the literature, causing Western people to describe a Love Hate relationship between China and Vietnam.

Recent development in Vietnam is the result of both China’s actions in South China Sea as well as the economic crisis that Vietnam is going through.

From my point of view, since genetic evidence has already showed that most North East Asian and South East Asian share the same roots somewhere in China, there is no need to pay heed to Chinese nationalistic claims about Chinese culture. The making of China civilization is now being deconstructed and China turns out not a special case anymore than other ancient civilizations such as Egyptian, Greek and Roman. The unity and continuity of Chinese civilization may not be what Chinese often claim or want others to believe. Vietnam culture inherited a lot from Han culture. Japan inherited its culture from the Tang’s while Korea adopted Song and Ming cultures. And we can say that modern day China inherit its culture from the Qing. This is very clear since if you wear qipao/cheongsam (Qing dynasty dress) people will say you love Chinese culture but they will not do so if someone wears a kinomo (a derivative of Tang dress) or a Vietnam ao-tu-than (a derivative of Han dress).

References:

Ngô Bảo Châu - Wikipedia Elites like Ngo are heavily involved in promoting educational reforms in Vietnam

Phan Bội Châu - Wikipedia the prominent figure that promoted Westernization of Vietnam society in early 20th century. People who advocating severing ties with Chinese culture draw their inspiration from him

Beyond the Yellow River: How China Became China New perspectives on the making of Chinese civilization

Social Memory and State Formation in Early China by Min Li Another new perspective on the making of Chinese civilzation

Popular CCTV TV shows about archeological treasures of Chinese civilization

6. Immense popularity of Chinese classic movies among Vietnamese netizens (look at view counts)

7. https://danviet.vn/dep/gioi-tre-dua-nhau-dien-suon-xam-don-trung-thu-som-623086.html This may cause angry feeling in anti-China Vietnamese

8. https://news.zing.vn/si-tu-chen-chan-cau-may-o-van-mieu-post432153.html

but this is widely approved by the majority of Vietnamese

0 votes
by

I disagree with the other answers. I am proud of our sinospheric past and also I feel most Vietnamese are as well. It's just that:

When we face Chinese, we like to show that we are different. Also most people try to be cool and independent. But I think deep down Vietnamese like the Chinese influence and think that we are not the same as our other neighbors. It’s just Vietnamese independence spirit.

Also we are not that anti-China. Otherwise you won't see this

Giới trẻ đua nhau diện sườn xám đón trung thu sớm

image

image

image

0 votes
by

No, Vietnamese aren't proud of almost anything that's Sinospheric for the same reason you are not proud of eating cook foods or brushing your teeth before going to bed. Well, maybe you are when you was three.

In general we are proud of what distinguish us from the rest or an achievement that requires great efforts. Having a Sinopheric past worths the pride only if you are the only one that inherit it. Since China is still there, we have no reason to take the pride.

However, Vietnamese still enjoy many aspects of chinese culture. Which aspects or how much we enjoy totally depends on individual and his or her exposure to the culture. Being chinese descent or not is definitely part of that exposure. Anyway, I don't think we need to criticise or even reflex much about those that enjoy it more or less than us.

Edit: Something we are proud of looks like this

image

That's the moment we make it to the AFC U23 championship final. That's an achievement taking us many years of trying and failing.

Or like this

It's water puppets, where else in the world people perform this complicate art.

You are using Adblock

Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.

Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

I turned off Adblock
...